Mysteries of Immortal Puppet Master

Chapter 1313: Chapter 513: Second Debate on the Classics (Part 2)

Flying Message from last night’s Zhao Hansheng, the message is very brief, only one sentence: "Daoist Brother Duanmu, rest assured, today, I will complete my task in one stroke, utterly defeat Qin De, clear all obstacles!"

Duanmu Zhang was aware of yesterday’s scripture debate situation and also knew of Qin De’s final sophistry, so he was fully confident in Zhao Hansheng.

Zhao Hansheng rode the clouds, looked towards the Cloud Prison.

This time, the group was even larger.

Not only Gu Qing, but also Chu Xuangu, Song Taosheng, Situ Gu, and others.

The sun had already risen, its golden rays illuminating the nearby peaks. And the mist churned beneath their feet, rolling like the sea, like tides. Distant mountains layered upon each other, extending endlessly to the horizon.

"Magnificent scenes!" Zhao Hansheng exclaimed, filled with confidence about winning this scripture debate.

In fact, on the way back, he already understood — it was only Qin De’s sophistry, the final unwillingness, mere dying struggle!

Qin De finally said: "Innate knowledge knows right from wrong, but can knowing right from wrong not be stealing knowledge?"

He raised a viewpoint that sounded alarming — "Innate knowledge is stealing heart!"

Zhao Hansheng explained: when you intend to steal something, the function of innate knowledge is to discern right from wrong. It knows "stealing" is "wrong," thus completing its task. It incurs feelings of shame in you, preventing you from stealing.

Qin De expressed: "You see, your innate knowledge knows ’stealing’ is wrong. But it knows ’stealing’ is wrong because it first knows ’stealing’ is something ’that can be done.’ If it doesn’t know the existence of the act of ’stealing’ at all, how can it judge whether the act is right or wrong?"

Since it knows stealing is something that can be done, it is "knowing can steal," which is "innate knowledge is stealing heart."

Zhao Hansheng could not refute at the time.

Zhao Hansheng focused on the result: innate knowledge’s result is preventing evil.

Qin De focused on the premise: innate knowledge must first "recognize" evil to prevent it.

Now, Zhao Hansheng had thought it through, Qin De dug a very deep pit in logic: "Knowing good" and "knowing evil" are actually two sides of the same ability. Innate knowledge, while telling you "what is good," inevitably tells you "what is evil," and this "recognition of evil" is the subtle "stealing heart" Qin De spoke of.

Zhao Hansheng stood on Feiyun with hands behind his back, calm and composed.

"Innate knowledge knows right from wrong, it is recognizing the distinction between good and evil, not recognizing the feasibility of theft. Like a bright mirror that reflects objects, showing beauty or ugliness, yet the mirror rejoices not in beauty, nor is angered by ugliness. Innate knowledge is also like this, reflecting good and evil, yet innate knowledge itself does not flow with good or evil."

"Qin De equates ’knowing good and evil’ with ’knowing can steal,’ it’s merely a switch of concept."

"Alas, back then, I was already almost understanding, why was I overly restless and anxious?"

"Today, I shall completely defeat Qin De!"

With unmatched confidence, Zhao Hansheng and others arrived at Cloud Prison.

Having notified ahead through Flying Message, the guard cultivators were already waiting at the entrance, immediately welcoming the Confucian cultivators into the prison.

Deep within the prison, Zhao Hansheng met Qin De once more.

Today’s Qin De, though still disheveled, was spirited, with eyes flashing a bizarre light.

There seemed to be a transformation.

Zhao Hansheng frowned slightly, yet did not ponder further.

The scripture debate began.

Zhao Hansheng struck first: "Three days ago, you said ’innate knowledge knows right from wrong is knowing can steal.’ Today I tell you, this is a switch of concept. Innate knowledge knows good and evil, like a mirror reflecting objects. A mirror reflects beauty and ugliness, a mirror is not ugliness; innate knowledge knows evil, innate knowledge is not evil. Knowing the feasibility of theft and not doing it, differs from knowing the feasibility of theft being the stealing heart, how can they be mixed?"

Qin De smiled.

For some reason, seeing this smile, Zhao Hansheng felt an inexplicable sense of unease.

"Mr. Zhao speaks correctly." Qin De leisurely said, "A mirror reflects beauty and ugliness, a mirror is not ugliness. Yet I ask the gentleman — a mirror can reflect beauty and ugliness, a mirror can also reflect ugliness and beauty. The reflection of a mirror bears no good or evil. But when a person holds a mirror to reflect objects, it can reflect beauty, and also ugliness. This is not the mirror’s fault, but the person’s fault."

Zhao Hansheng frowned: "What exactly do you mean?"

Qin De’s eyes flashed with a strange light: "I mean — innate knowledge is like this. Innate knowledge bears no good or evil, but when used by people, it can become good or evil. A saint uses innate knowledge for good, thus is a saint; a thief uses innate knowledge for evil, thus is a thief. Innate knowledge is neither saint nor thief, the user is human."

The hearts of all present were shaken.

All because Qin De’s words were entirely different from the first scripture debate. This wasn’t Confucian logic, but — Demon Path logic!

Qin De continued: "Heart is Reason, yet the heart also harbors desire. Reason and desire are originally one entity, why forcefully divide them? Sages say ’eliminate desire to preserve reason,’ yet if desire can be eliminated, how can reason stand? Like water and fire, extinguishing fire preserves water, extinguishing water preserves fire. Yet water contains fire, fire contains water, when has separation ever been possible?"

Zhao Hansheng: ?!

He moved forward with shackles and chains clinking, step by step towards Zhao Hansheng, his voice growing louder: "Mr. Zhao, you attack me with Heart Learning, then I shall respond with Heart Learning. You say heart is reason, I say heart is desire. You claim to achieve innate knowledge, I claim to achieve desire heart. You say Knowledge and Action Unity, I say Desire and Action Unity — where desire flourishes, there is action, why wait for reason?"

What Qin De spoke of was not Confucian Reason but used Confucian rhetoric throughout. He drew upon the Confucian framework, yet filled it with Demon Path content. The same house, with a change of ownership, becomes entirely different.

Zhao Hansheng was caught off guard!

He thought he had already seen through Qin De’s true nature, but after just one night, how could this fellow’s transformation be so massive?!

For a moment, Zhao Hansheng fell into silence.

Gu Qing too felt utterly unbelievable. Having been well nurtured, he furrowed his brows, pointed at Qin De, tone furious: "This is no longer Confucianism!"

Qin De held his head high, eyes flashing with a hateful gaze: "You all condemn my ’Saint Thief Scripture’ as heretical and demonic! Very well, then it is a Demon Scripture, so what?"

Chu Xuangu, Song Taosheng, Situ Gu, and others exchanged bewildered glances.

Qin De’s transformation was truly immense.

In the past, Qin De always regarded himself as a Confucian Cultivator, always believed ’Saint Thief Scripture’ to be Confucian classic. But now, he abandoned the identity of Confucian Cultivator, self-acknowledged Demonology.

Qin De laughed heartily, began bluffing: "Zhao Hansheng, do you truly believe victory is within your grasp?"

"In the first scripture debate, I merely conceded out of generosity."

"The ’Saint Thief Scripture’ you have seen is merely an old version. In the prison, I ponder day and night, my true power you have yet to witness."

"You knew in advance what outsiders knew of the ’Saint Thief Scripture,’ hence your preparations were more thorough than mine. Therefore, in the first encounter, I feigned weakness, embraced your Heart Learning rationale."

Qin De paused, then sighed: "Heart Learning truly excels, surprisingly unique, commendable beyond words!"

He pointed at Zhao Hansheng: "You used Heart Learning against me, so I understood where Heart Learning can be broken. You taught me innate knowledge, so I understood where innate knowledge can be stolen. Mr. Zhao, thank you."

Zhao Hansheng felt as if struck by lightning, his body and mind trembling intensely.

He was a Great Scholar, clenched his teeth, gaze sharp as a blade: "Very well, then let us debate once more. Let me marvel at your Demonology!"

Zhao Hansheng initiated the attack: "Qin De, you just said ’heart is desire.’ So I ask you: can desire have constancy?"

"Today desires this, tomorrow desires that, if desire has no constancy then the heart has no constancy. An inconstant heart, can it adhere to a continuous path? Without a path there is disorder, disorder prevents standing upright. You regard desire as heart, how do you stand upright?"

"Mr. Zhao asks well." Qin De leisurely replied, "Though desire lacks constancy, the inconstancy of desire is the constancy of heart."

Zhao Hansheng frowned.

Qin De continued: "The human heart is like flowing water, unceasing day and night. Yesterday’s desire, today is already different; today’s desire, tomorrow will also be different. Yet while flowing water changes, its nature is water; while desires change, their nature is desire. Water lacks constant form but has constant nature, desires lack constant thought but have constant desire. This is the constancy of desire, why speak of no path?"

Zhao Hansheng was speechless.

Qin De added: "You regard reason as constant, I ask you: can reason change? Confucius speaks of ’benevolence,’ Mencius of ’righteousness,’ Cheng-Zhu of ’reason,’ your Heart Learning speaks of ’heart.’ All belong to the Confucian Sect, yet reason often changes, let alone desire? If reason can change but desire cannot, isn’t that a double standard?"

Zhao Hansheng’s face turned subtly.